EPISODE 7 - Arionne Nettles
Tyler Greene:
Hey, it's Tyler. We are thrilled at the reception to this new show, and we'd love to hear how we can make it more meaningful for you. So if you take our five minute survey before the end of 2020, you could win a $100 gift card of your choice. Go to timfshow.com/survey to fill it out, and thank you so, so much.
Arionne Nettles:
We glorify parenthood and what we see as the traditional thing, but then when you have a child that is not taking whatever that traditional path is, then you're going to have to find something else to be into.
Tyler Greene:
Hi there. Welcome to this is my family, a podcast about building a life with the people you love. I'm your host, Tyler Greene, and I am so glad you're here.
On today's show we've got Arionne Nettles. She's a friend of mine, an incredible journalist, a professor and the single parent of a kid with special needs. But first, for those who are new to our show, I just want to say welcome. We make this show to celebrate and explore the many beautifully messy ways that we can make our families today. And to be honest, a lot of the ways that those families end up making us. We started the season with the story of me, my husband, and our beautiful son, Sam, since then, we've talked to renowned meditation teachers, iconic drag queens, and a whole lot of other fascinating people about their families. So thank you for stopping by, and also just a shout out to those people who are coming back for more.
So, I wanted to talk to Arionne Nettles for a lot of reasons. We used to work together at WBEZ in Chicago, the public radio station there, and Ari always had a positive disposition. Sometimes I would secretly just go walk around her area just to feel better. That is the truth. And one time we got to do a pledge drive pitch together, which for those who are unfamiliar with public radio, there's a lot of begging for your money, and Arionne and I got to sit face-to-face for two hours and just connect, and have fun, and laugh. She's really just one of those people that brightens the room. And the truth is even though I sat with her for two hours, I really didn't know much about her family story, which if you follow her on social media, she's really open about in a refreshingly authentic way.
I knew from following her on social, that she hunkered down alone in this pandemic, trying to juggle this really cool career as a journalist and a journalism professor at Northwestern University, while also raising her teenage son, Jackson. And Jackson has developmental disabilities that mean he is non-verbal except for a little sign language. One example that she brings up in the interview is that he can't hold silverware to feed himself. So it's a lot to handle all of that, and to juggle all of those things. So, first of all, I just wanted to check in with my friend Arionne and see how she's holding up.
Arionne Nettles:
I'm not going to lie. I think at the beginning, I would always say, "Oh, I'm great." Because that is our automatic response to everything. I'm good. I'm good. I'm fine. I'm great. And then lately I've been saying to people no, I'm not good. It's a lot going on. It's a lot to handle. I am learning maybe new ways to handle the stress, saying, what? My son is taking a nap. So he doesn't want to go back to school for this afternoon session, and I am really tired or really busy, and we're just going to skip it.
Tyler Greene:
Before we talked more about her and Jackson, I wanted to talk to Arionne about the first chosen family she formed. After growing up in Chicago, Arionne headed to Florida A&M University, a historically black college, better known as FAMU, and the close group of friends that she found during college became her new chosen family while she was far from home.
Arionne Nettles:
They really do become your family, and I think that not to take anything away from my friends who went to school in Chicago, but if you can drive an hour and 45 minutes and get back home, you are going to rely on your home or your family. We couldn't do that right? When I had Jackson, so many of them, I always joke and talk about how my friends, when Jackson was small enough to be in a carrier, they would pass him from class, but say, "Oh, I got this really important class." And then my friend Lydia might say, "Oh, well I don't have class until 9:30 so I can watch him for your 8:00." And then I have another friend that's, "Oh, well I got 8:00 with you. But then after that I don't have a 9:30, so I will just grab him from Lee."
So they would pass him in the hallway in between classes in his little carrier. Like, oh yeah.
Tyler Greene:
Wow.
Arionne Nettles:
One person is getting out of class the other person is going to class and they would pass him off.
Tyler Greene:
Wow.
Arionne Nettles:
And so, you needed that. There was no care.com. I mean, and then some of that, even if some of that stuff was available, then I wouldn't have had the money for it. Even something as little as not having Uber's. So really having to rely on, in a place we are here in Chicago, or any major city, you have a pretty good transit system. We did not have a good transit system. So you have got to rely, you got to find somebody who has a car if you need anything done. Food delivery wasn't a huge thing right?
So it was just all these things where if you needed something, you had to rely on other people. And so you have to develop a community, you have to develop a family, and I think that the crazy thing is that even with a lot of those friends, even when some of us, we would fight sometimes, we would have disagreements, but it was still like, no, but that's my family. I can fight with her and maybe we didn't agree yesterday, but that's still my sister, and so if at any point she's up against anything, Mm-hmm (negative). So I think that that was a very interesting period in my life because I think now, especially now that I'm older, I don't have as many friendships that are like that, but I have such a high standard for friendship now.
Tyler Greene:
I was going to say what was different? I mean, obviously FAMU community, but it was also, you were younger and I mean...
Arionne Nettles:
One very special thing about going to an HBCU is that you really are often connected with people that are very, very different from you, but I don't know what it is. It's kind of you are very different, but still very much the same. We all were kind of about the same thing, even if we had different ways of achieving it. I think that you're very much about how do I find myself as a young black person in this world? What do I want my legacy to be like as a young black person in this world? What am I shaping myself to be? What kind of circle do I want? What kind of community? So it's those questions that you are kind of constantly asking yourself where you just may or may not. And again, not to say that other people don't do that, but it's just that you're all kind of on the same plane, as far as some of that goes.
And it's like an awakening and a growth period, and you're all having it at the same time. You're all becoming aware of what you can do, and the power that you have, all at the same time. Even now, if I'm with other HBCU alums, we just kind of connect in a way that is just like... And sometimes it might just be a pure appreciation, right? I understand your path. I know your path. Just like how, if somebody went to any school that you went to, you are like, Oh, I remember we walked the same halls. It is kind of if you went to another HBCU, even if it wasn't mine, I feel like we walked the same path in some way.
Tyler Greene:
Her fellow students became even more like family when Arionne was just starting her first semester of grad school at FAMU. That's when she got pregnant with her son, Jackson. In fact, she ended up going into labor on a day when she had an important midterm.
Arionne Nettles:
When I was about to have him, I was like, "Listen, kid, I have a midterm today, and these contractions that we're having..." Cause I was having contractions, but they were still 15 minutes apart. So they don't let you go to the hospital until they are five minutes apart, and if I don't go to the hospital, I don't have a doctor's note to be excused from this test. So I was like, "Listen, I need you to come today. I need my doctor's note to be dated for today, so that I can get a retake. Okay?"
Tyler Greene:
Out of this.
Arionne Nettles:
Okay.
Tyler Greene:
Yes.
Arionne Nettles:
So do what you got to do, and come this day. And he did, that was the first and last time he ever listened to me. But, he came. And then I'm pretty sure, I think I had that retest two weeks later.
Tyler Greene:
And so I kind of just want to hear about how you raised him in college, and then with his health issues, when did that happen and how did it all evolve?
Arionne Nettles:
So his birth was normal. He didn't have any issues at birth. I didn't have any pregnancy issues that I knew of. Everything was pretty normal, but when he was around three months old, I saw him have a seizure. And for the longest, nobody would believe me. So I took him to the doctor, and then I got a referral for a pediatric neurologist, and at the time, since I'm in student we are on Medicaid. I don't have the best insurance, and they're like, "Oh, well this is the only pediatric neurologist in Tallahassee, so he's the only person you can see." So I go see this man, and he keeps telling me I don't know what a seizure looks like. So he's not believing me at all, and I'm like, "but my baby, who is three months old is shaking so hard that it's waking me up out of my sleep.
That is how hard he was shaking. And he kept saying to me, it's probably just acid reflux. It's not a seizure. And then they put a 24 hour EEG, I believe, is the one that's on the brain. The EKG is for your heart. But so he did a 24 hour EEG. They didn't see anything. They did an MRI, but again, he's a little baby. So he's moving, he's squirming. Now that I have good doctors, I realize that now when Jackson gets MRIs, they put him to sleep, because they know that kids are going to squirm. And if you squirm, you can't get a good MRI picture. So they were doing these tests, but I don't think they were good tests and they kept saying, "We don't see anything."
So finally, after so much complaining, they finally took him into the hospital for observation. But this is six months. So this has been three months later, three months of trying to fight and make people believe that he's having seizures. And then he finally has a seizure in the hospital, and now they believe me. But basically that was just the start, to summarize several years actually, of people giving him these diagnosis that were not true. Right? I know it's hard to diagnose a little baby, so I get it. But a lot of these people now that I'm older, I know that they just were not very competent of how to do this with children.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
Even just as little of you are literally doing MRIs and they, "Yeah, you didn't see it." But now it's, "We see that there's three brain tumors and they're benign, so they don't grow, but they make them have seizures and they effect his developmental growth."
So y'all talking about, you don't see anything and it is all this stuff to be seen. So I think it just shows people just not knowing, but it went from years of from doctor, to doctor, to doctor before I finally get this really sweet nurse, and she pulled me aside because we were in the hospital with a different doctor, and she was like, "I didn't tell you this. I'm not supposed to tell you this, but you need to find Dr. So-and-so and I have seen him work miracles. And your baby is having all these different types of seizures. I've never seen these many different types of seizures in one kid before. You need to get in to see this doctor." And that was a doctor that finally diagnosed him with what he has now tubular sclerosis.
And that was the first doctor to listen to me, to actually care about me, to actually say "Okay, let's really evaluate the medicines that we are using. And keep staying in contact with me and my office. And if this isn't working, we're going to try for this many weeks. And if this doesn't work, then we'll try it." That was the first time. So at one time he was on a medicine that was making him just scream a lot, and Jackson is still non-verbal, but I think around this time he was still around two, and he was just yelling, just screaming. And when we went into the doctor, the doctor was like, "But, how long has he been yelling like this?" I was like, "He has just been yelling this for a week, and I don't know what's going on."
And he was like, "Next time that happens, just call me." Right? So it's just like a totally different type of process, but it took years for us to get to that point to even know what he had. But because of the tubular sclerosis, he has developmental delay. He still has some seizures. We usually will kind of get them in under control for a little bit, but he's a growing boy, so we have to constantly adjust his levels and try new medicines and stuff. And he has autism technically. He is diagnosed with autism now, but basically the autism is connected to the tubular sclerosis.
Tyler Greene:
Still ahead, I talk with Arionne about her hopes and dreams for both her son Jackson and her own future. If you're enjoying this conversation, don't forget to hit subscribe on Apple podcasts, follow on Spotify, or add us on any of the other great podcasting apps. Stay with us. More Arionne up next.
Hey there, Tyler here. I just wanted to say, thanks for listening to this new podcast. Having you along for this ride really means so much. And as we start working on season two, we'd love to get to know a little bit more about you, and how we can make this show more meaningful. If you take our super quick survey, it is five minutes, I promise you I timed it, you could win a $100 gift card of your choice. That's right. So go to tmfshow.com/survey, or click the link in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time, and for being a part of this new community.
Arionne has been a solo parent ever since Jackson was about two years old. Her relationship with his dad was short-lived
Arionne Nettles:
At the time we were technically together, and then we later got married, but we got divorced right after we got married. And all of the hospital visits and all of that, especially by that point... So we got married when he was one, but by the time he was two, we were getting a divorce. So really most of this, his care has all been on me.
Tyler Greene:
What kind of support do you have right now?
Arionne Nettles:
So I have my parents, but that's pretty much it, and they're also all still working. So my mom, my stepdad, my dad, everybody's working. So it's not like I have anybody who is at home, or at home with me. And my mom, I appreciate her so much, but she is not the, make her grandchild do anything type of grandma, so she is not going to make him sit in class or do any of that stuff.
So it does kind of still either way fall on me to do a lot of the mean parents stuff. The, you got to go to school, you got to go. That's all me. So they do help on the weekends, but I'd say for the most part during the week, it's just me and him in his house. And yeah, we're both getting on each other's nerves. So I mean, my family tries to maybe help, but really when it comes to his physical care and his health care, it's all on me because nobody else can handle it. Nobody likes to take him to the doctor if he's going to be screaming right? Or he has to get shots, or they don't know how. They're not going to hold him down. God blessed by my mama and her sister, my aunt, they took him, he had to get an MRI, and of course they put him to sleep.
And Jackson also, I think partially because he's lazy, and that child loves to sleep... if you give him a little more sedative, he's like, fine I'm out, but he just traditionally takes a little longer to wake up from being put to sleep for a procedure. So I had to work. They took him for me. They were in there crying when he didn't wake up immediately because they were so worried. They were like, Well, he is not waking up. So they're in there crying. So they are no help to me because I was like, you are just going to be in there crying.
Tyler Greene:
Making it worse. Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
Making it worse. So it really is just me. They could maybe take them to a checkup or something, but I got to make sure there is no shots involved. I got to make sure it's nothing that's going to make him cry or anything because then they're going to start crying. But most of the big stuff, so pretty much everything lies on me and his father is not in the picture anymore. So he hasn't seen his father since he was about two years old. So now he's turning 14 in February.
Tyler Greene:
So he's almost a high schooler?
Arionne Nettles:
He is almost a high schooler. We just applied for high school.
Tyler Greene:
Wow.
Arionne Nettles:
I just hit submit on the little application. I can't believe it. I'm really stressed out that that is where I am at this point.
Tyler Greene:
What have you learned from the last decade of raising him?
Arionne Nettles:
I think probably my biggest thing, my biggest takeaway, the biggest lesson is probably just that some stuff you just can't force, that people are going to be who they are. And so Jackson is just literally going to be Jackson, and you have to respect it because he's going to do what he wants to do. So while the rest of us, we are running around, losing our minds, being stressed out, you know what Jackson does if he doesn't like something? He just goes to sleep. He just takes a nap. He's like, I don't want to do this. I'm going to go to sleep. And so it's just his attitude is, I don't care. I don't care what you all... I'm going to do what I want to do. I don't really care. And I mean, of course we can't always just do that, but we put a lot of effort into other stuff, and sometimes we need to be in our own little world.
And so I think that's the one thing I really admire about him, is that he is in his own little world and he is going to be happy. Does Jackson know that it's a global pandemic? Nope. He knows he has to be at home all the time, so sometimes he gets a little irritated, "listen, I'm ready to go." When he's ready to go, since he's non verbal, he'll get socks and hand them to me or get his shoes and be like, I need to get out of here. But besides that, he's just kind of like, eh, okay, so this is how we're doing stuff. Oh, homeschool, remote learning. I'm not into this so I'm going to just go to sleep. And when it's time to play again you wake me up lady.
Tyler Greene:
That's awesome. I feel there are some lessons we could learn from Jackson during the pandemic.
Arionne Nettles:
Yeah. It's just that I only have so much control over stuff, and that you're not going to bother him. He's not going to let you bother him. That is the thing, because I try. I'm like, "Come on Jackson, you got to stay up." I'll be over there like, "We got to go to class, come on. Yay. Let's clap for this song." And he's just, "I'm going to bed. So you do what you want to do, but I'm going to just lay here." And so he's just very... So it's just really taught me that. It's taught me patience with people. People are who they are, you cannot make them be anything that they are not. I think, definitely, when I was younger, maybe because, we glorify parenthood and what we see as the traditional thing, but then when you have a child that is not taking whatever that traditional path is, then you're going to have to find something else to be into because Jackson is not going to do those. He is not going to be interested in certain things.
Arionne Nettles:
So I need to be interested in what he's interested in. If he's my baby, and I want him to be happy, then I have to find ways for him to be happy, of course that are within reason, right? If I would let him, he would try to be up on YouTube all night long. So it's like, sorry, bro, you can't do that. But I have to find if he loves the song, I got to sing that song. He loves music. He loves clapping and stomping and dancing.
So that has to be what we do. He's not going to want to do maybe some of the other things that a neuro-typical kid might be into. He's not going to be into some of those activities. Jackson is going to like the same songs, and play with the same toys. He has played with the same toys since he was a little kid, so that's one thing I did learn about Christmas was, I just need to re-buy the same types of toys. Don't try to get that man any new toys because he's going to look at you like you are crazy. He's like, "Listen, you know what I like. Give me the toys I like."
Tyler Greene:
That's what I try to tell my husband. I say that.
Arionne Nettles:
You know what I like.
Tyler Greene:
Apple products now come on.
Arionne Nettles:
Exactly. So you got to give people what they like. See lesson.
Tyler Greene:
Yes.
Arionne Nettles:
You can't make people want what you want them to want. You got to give them what they want. So...
Tyler Greene:
Oh my. That is deep. Can we just pause on that?
Arionne Nettles:
Yes.
Tyler Greene:
Now the Jackson's about to be a high schooler. What kind of hopes and dreams do you have for his future, post high school and into further adulthood?
Arionne Nettles:
Yeah. So I think that that has been one thing that is... When you talk about accepting stuff, I had to accept that Jackson's adult hood is likely not going to be the typical adult hood that we talk about as far as you're 18, you go to college and you move, you get on your own. That may not be it. Based off of probably where his progress is now, I think that he will likely live with me for the rest of my life, and so I would for him to be able to move a little bit more independently, for example, I set him up with a little mini apartment in the basement, right. Could I make it so that, okay, he has a refrigerator, and he has access to things to drink, and he can get those things on his own. And if he wants to snack, is there a way to have a snack that is in his grasp that he can... So I'm trying to think of things that of what is the best way.
How can I make him be as independent as he possibly can be? And if it's something past that limit, not to worry about it, because for him there aren't really many snacks that he can feed himself. He can't feed himself with a spoon, so he does finger food. So even if I could get him to the point where if I have just a plate of chicken nuggets already on a plate, and he can stick it in the microwave, and feed himself, that is a huge win,
Tyler Greene:
Win.
Arionne Nettles:
Right? That's a huge win for him to be able to do that himself because right now I got to fix the plate, and set it up, and then cut the chicken nuggets up, and then sit it on the table, and then he can feed himself.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
So any little thing that he can learn as he grows older to be able to better take care of himself is a win. He is still in diapers. I would love for Jackson to be potty trained. Besides the fact that I am trying to change the diapers, and I have been changing diapers for 13 years.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
But that aside, as he becomes older, that will limit the amount of activities he could do if he's in a diaper, right?
Tyler Greene:
For sure.
Arionne Nettles:
Now he's a little kid, and so even though he's a kid, he can have an aid. Aids can change his diaper, stuff like that. But when he gets older, if he's 25, he's going to need to use the restroom if he does any activities outside of the house. Right? So I think those types of things, just being able to really take care of himself are my hopes for him. And I think that he'll get there, but it's also, because again, Jackson is really stubborn. Some of it is, I just don't want to. You know what I want. Why do you want me to do extra work? He learned how to say please in sign language, and he does it so aggressively, but he does it for everything. He does please for, "Please I would some food." He still does, "Please. I would like some more food." He does, "Please. I'm tired of you." He does please for everything. Right?
Tyler Greene:
Please.
Arionne Nettles:
And so even just getting him to do a few more of those signals could help him communicate a little bit better besides him, kind of shoving his cup in my face when I'm trying to take a nap, he could maybe say, "I would something to drink." Because if you are not paying attention and a sippy cup hits you in the eye, it's not the best.
Tyler Greene:
Owie. No.
Arionne Nettles:
I was just like, that is probably happening to you right now. So you probably know.
Tyler Greene:
It's all kinds of things. Books. [crosstalk 00:27:15].
Arionne Nettles:
It's like, "Here, here, I want it." And it's like, "That's great, but could you tell me another way?"
Tyler Greene:
Okay. So last question. I know you just bought a house and you're a college professor, and I'm curious to know what are your hopes and dreams for your own life, but also in the context of the show, any future family or, what does Ari's family look like in 10 years, if different at all.
Arionne Nettles:
Yeah. Yeah. That was a very funny thing is that I was freaking out about having enough space in this house for the future family I want, and my best friend who was my realtor had to tell me, "Okay, well, listen, if you outgrow the house, we'll just find you a new house. Okay. Relax." Because I was like, "But what about if I have a baby, where am I going to put the nursery?" And she's like, "You'll get a new house." She's like, "Or, whoever your husband is, maybe he'll build this house out. Or maybe he'll get... You could also just calm down and worry about it later." So I very much would to get married and have another baby or two. I feel like if I say, "Or two." Maybe twins or something.
Because I think I only got one more pregnancy in me, but I'm also open to other types of ways to have a family. If I don't have a biological child, I would adopt a baby. I just think I do really feel like I have more love in me, and so I do want another child, but I, to be just very frank, Jackson is a lot of work by myself.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
And how with many kids, as they get older, they're less work, as Jackson gets older, he's more work because he's stronger and heavier and bigger, and it takes a lot more out of me. And I don't know if I could handle a baby by myself and him.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
So, although I am very open to people making the decision. I would prefer not to have another child full time by myself while I'm still taking care of Jackson full-time by myself. I think if I did that, I would have to not work or something. It would just have to be a level of sacrifice that I don't think I want because I still have career ambitions. I applied for a PhD program I hope to start next year.
Tyler Greene:
Yes. Dr. Nettles.
Arionne Nettles:
Yeah. And so if I did that... So I would hope to have a baby in three years or so. But again, I mean, I think that has been actually very tough for me during the pandemic especially, is that unknown feeling of I'm not dating anybody. So I'm 35 now. If I were to get pregnant today, I'm taking a geriatric pregnancy.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
My risks are going to continue to sky rocket every year that I don't have a baby.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah.
Arionne Nettles:
And so I think that whole biological clock ticking thing is really stressing me out because literally I'm not dating anybody.
It's a whole pandemic. I'm not probably going to find nobody. And so I really do want love and companionship, and I think that that has honestly been really tough for me during the pandemic, not having that family structure at home besides just me and Jackson. And so I did think that I would have been remarried by now and have more kids, but that's not what happened, but I do want it to happen. I think that's been a big leap for me is to actually be able to admit that I want that, I want a husband. I want more kids, or at least another kid, or however that looks. Whether it is more kids by marriage, or more kids by adoption or whatever. But I know I want more kids. And so that's kind of my hope.
Tyler Greene:
That's awesome. And I was thinking maybe somebody will be listening to this episode.
Arionne Nettles:
I know. Call me up you all. I'm single.
Tyler Greene:
Call you up.
Arionne Nettles:
I'm single and ready to virtually mingle.
Tyler Greene:
Oh my God, thank you so much for spending this time with me. I really love your energy. You've always been sort of tangential to my immediate existence at work when we worked together, but every time I saw you it was always like I felt better. And I just want you to know that.
Arionne Nettles:
Thanks.
Tyler Greene:
And I appreciate you sharing this story, and I'm sure we could talk for another two hours, but now we both have to go back to our children and take care of that. But, thanks for spending time with me, and Merry Christmas I guess.
Arionne Nettles:
Yes. Merry Christmas, and tell Sam I said hey.
Tyler Greene:
Oh I will.
Arionne Nettles:
I'm the president of the Sam fans, so...
Tyler Greene:
Thank you so much Ari for spending that time with me, and sharing your life with us. I leave that conversation thinking of two words, patience and grace. Ari says, in the episode, referencing Jackson, "He's going to do what he's going to do. You have to respect it. You know what Jackson does if he doesn't like something? He goes to sleep."
I think there's lots of lessons to take from this episode, but the biggest one probably is that people are who they are. I'm going to repeat that again. People are who they are. No matter what you do, you cannot make people be what they are not. And this applies I think to many family relationships. Particularly in the pandemic, we spend a lot of time with our loved ones. Our relationships are zoomed in upon, and I got to tell you from experience when you pause, breathe, no matter what is going on, and look at the other person and see them for who they are with full acceptance, I'm telling you it's a lot easier.
The sidebar to that is it's really, really hard. And I think that's another reason I loved talking to Ari, is that Ari seems to dig in. She doesn't shy away from something being hard. When things happen in our lives that we don't expect, we do have to grow up really fast. And I'm just thinking of all of us out here, me now sitting in my closet, or you haven't seen your family and nine months maybe. Human beings are resilient. And when we can be patient, show a little grace, and breathe, sometimes it works out.
On next week's episode, we return to a theme of the season, which is forgiveness. And we talk about complicated caretakers and so much more with my friend, J. Ivy, who is a performance poet and a Peabody Award winner. His famous Dear Father performance inspired a book by the same name.
J. Ivy:
Our parents, they aren't these indestructible superheroes that we make them out to be. Because I mean, for so long, we were small and they were big, and we're always looking up, constantly looking up, looking up, looking up, looking up.
Tyler Greene:
Thanks for listening to this is my family. You can find Arionne online. That's @Aria nettles on Instagram and Twitter. You can find this show on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @timfshow. Our website is timfshow.com, and you can email me at tyler@timfshow.com. This show is a production of thestoryproducer.com. And it's made by me, Tricia Bobeda, and Jackie Ball. It's edited and mixed by Adam Yoffie. Our music is by Andrew Edwards. Our community manager is Anika Exum. And last, but certainly not least our art director is my handsome husband, Ziwu Zhou.
If you're digging this show, I would love for you to write us a thoughtful review, and shoot us those five stars on Apple Podcasts. It's also really helpful if you tell someone you love about this show. We're trying to build an army of empathy here, and we need all the soldiers we can get these days. Also, as I said before, be sure to hit subscribe or follow us on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening. I'm Tyler Greene, and until next time stay beautiful and messy (silence.).
Is a podcast all done, Sam?
Sam:
All done